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counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-19-2003 00:09

I have a little favor that I'd like to ask all you Asylum DnD players, but I'll give my problem first:

I've played most, if not all of the ADnD products on the computer, and played other pen and paper RPG's with friends (the longest running being Fallout RPG). Anyways, my and a few friends decided to play DnD. Well, that didn't go over too well with my parents. Their problems are: Theirs magic, it takes lots of time and people get overinvolved in it. Plus, if you tell someone at our church: I play DnD, or my son plays DnD, they'll break out their Exoscism Kit.

I've tryed to convince them otherwise on all these points, and let me play, but It's not working out very well. In the Magic issue, I argued that many Christian authors included (good guys) that used magic: Tolkien, Lewis, Milton, MacDonald and that this is fantasy magic. In the real world (at least I beleive this) if someone was to cast a spell, their messing around with demonic forces. In a game, there is no Satan or God, so you can't be asking demonic forces to do your bidding. Some article put it pretty well: In a futuristic game, you pick up a flamethrower and toast the guy, in DnD, you pick up a wand of Burning Hands, and toast the guy.

On the subject of it taking too much time, I tryed to say that it would take as much time as a video game, or as much time as I spend over at a friends house. You know, you try and get everybody together, eat greasy food and play DnD. As for people getting too involved in the game, I said that DnD is the kind of game that an intelligent person plays, or at least it attracts intelligent people. They are (99.99999) percent likely to not become overinvolved.

Anyways, my parents still hold strong to their original statements: (1) Well, theirs still magic, and the characters do incantations (and they say that half the game is spells, because half the players manual is spells) (etcetera) (2) It takes up lots of time, and people spend all week doing this and (3) that you WILL become overinvolved in the game and end up a mess.

The favor that I'd like to ask is for someone here to try and give me some help in convincing them otherwise. I know that their are several people on the board that play, and would like to know if you hvae any articles, online logs from playing (like OpenRPG) or just could talk from general experiences that could help me. Thanks in advance.

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 08-19-2003 00:29

Kind of hard to give advice on something like this. At least for me it is. I would much rather be face-to-face with the scions of evil!

One approach that I've heard that works is inviting the sceptics to play. Start a non-magical campaign, just fighters and thieves, and play a few sessions with the "non-believers". If all goes well, maybe they will start to see the non-sequiturs perpetrated between a game and real life. One of my favorite characters was a 1/2 elf chaotic evil thief/priest of Malar, and playing him had *no* impact on my real life dealings.

Yeah, non-sequiturs. They can be a bitch to fight.

edit:
Maybe you can try anologies. Everybody that plays becomes over-involved and a mess. Yeah, and everybody that drinks a beer becomes an alcoholic. Or everybody that drives a car will get into a wreck.



[This message has been edited by warjournal (edited 08-19-2003).]

InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 08-19-2003 00:44

Maybe they're just afraid you'll just fall under the category of fat nerd . Hmm, well my mom doesn't seem to care, but she really doesn't know all that much about DnD, though. Umm, hmm, how about you Q me....

Moon Dancer
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Lost Grove
Insane since: Apr 2003

posted posted 08-19-2003 00:59

cfb- here is a very good article that you may be interested in. I'll post others as I find them, but I think this is a good start...

http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/confess.html

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-19-2003 01:18

Moon Dancer: I actually did show that to them, actually, only my Mom. I really don't think, though, that it is my Mom that is against it (maybe I'd say that she's 3/4ths of the way against it, mostly from showing her that article). It's my Dad that is really against it.

The anti-DnD articles that I seem to fine (an article of chicks.com, being a heavily circulated article, for example) seem to be blatantly lying. Even referancing to quotes on certain pages in the article that don't exist (and if I go to the local nerd shop, they don't exist in the v3 or 2.5 rulebooks either).

I really don't want to deceive anyone, so I think that I'm going to try and set up the demo adventure found on wizards.com for them, where they can play as characters that even use the dreaded S word (spells). My Mom's agreed, but my Dad is on a buisness trip in Omaha, Nebraska, so it'll be a week before I can do that.

One other thing that I'm wondering, is if OpenRPG creates logs, and if I could possibly have a segment emailed to me (or a log) by one of the players in the Asylum DnD.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 08-19-2003).]

Moon Dancer
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Lost Grove
Insane since: Apr 2003

posted posted 08-19-2003 01:54

I think it's great that your mom has agreed to at least try it.

I know after years of propaganda that has been put forth (even by the illustrious evening national news magazines) it is difficult for many people to change their conceptions of the game. Being a gamer myself, it was a difficult thing for my mother to accept. (I got the hour long tirade on how the game was satanic and I could be spending my Sundays better in church or voluteering or something...) After several exasperated explanations that using your imagination is not evil and that the game actually encourages skills like critical thinking, problem solving and leadership (not to mention the math skills- ), I got a begrudging acceptance. But after all those years of hearing that D & D was evil and satan's game, it was a hard corner for my mother to turn.
Now it's more or less, "So what did you do last night?" "We gamed for a while." "Oh. So, how was work today?"

I think you're really handling this the best way possible. I look forward to hearing how your parent's first campaign goes!



Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 08-19-2003 01:58

I encountered these people when I was young, too. Seems many parents are not very confident in their ability to raise a child to think for himself or to know the difference between right and wrong, not to mention the church-goers' lack of confidence in their faith, that they would all be so frightened that their loved one could be so easily turned to Satanism by what is essentially a board game. If your moral background is such a house of cards, what the hell good is everything they've taught you?

And seriously, good luck getting any churchies to play the game. They wouldn't want to risk falling uncontrollably into demonism -- those strangely shaped dice are pretty powerful tools. After all, a closed mind is a safe soul.


Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 08-19-2003 02:00

cfb, I think you are right to try to reassure your parents about you playing DnD. Just make sure they don't misinterpret your "reassurance" as "pleading" heh
Although my "advice" comes with the tag that I have never been a parent, nor ever played DnD!!
Perhaps you could enlighten me? I would like to experience what it's like to play, where is a good place to start?
Tao


[doh] I think I just realised that this isn't a computer game, er, um, [/doh]

[This message has been edited by Taobaybee (edited 08-19-2003).]

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-19-2003 02:38

I'm putting together a small 30 minute run-through for my parents when my Dad gets home, anyways...

Tao: This is actually my first time playing DnD, but if it operates anything like Fallout, it's almost like playing through a fantasy book. You have a GM, or DM, or whatever who describes scenes, events etcetera. They are the narrator, and the "god" of the game. Then you have the players, who in their imagination explore, talk to people and stuff like that. When combat starts, a gameboard is set out the players can hack away and cast spells at monsters. A lot of the times, the characters will also have a gameboard for the towns, paths, world etcetera as well as having the DM describe everything. It's really a lot of imagination, and the excitment of the game comes from immersing yourself in a world that the DM creates.

Maybe someone could explain DnD better. Fallout RPG, when I played, was extremely disorganized.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 08-19-2003).]

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 08-19-2003 03:24

I wouldn't use "God" as a term in your description of D&D for your parents.

I have been a DM for 10-15 years or so now and your analogy with the book is how I describe it to anyone who asks me about it. I am the plot, I create twists and turns in the story and react to the characters who are all of you players out there. You, as characters in the story react to situations that I present to you and that's how the story moves along. I create obstacles for the group to overcome and the story progresses from there depending on whether or not you make it past that challenge, be it an enemy encounter, a trap, or just a simple riddle you couldn't answer. At the culmination of the "plot" you are pretty much done with the game until the next chapter for that character rolls around.

The best example of this sort of epic story type of adventure is the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Those books are adventures to me. I have never run an adventure that hasn't turned into a multi-year epic tale. My last one was four years in the making and 270 pages long.

To put a word or two to the... "concerns" your parents have -

There is magic

Yes, there is magic. There are incantations alluded to but an important note is that the players are never required to say them. The PHB is NOT a spellbook. it is about as exciting as read what happens when you punch numbers into a calculator. They are descriptions of special effects. I find that the biggest issue that people outside of the game have is separating the player from the character. YOU are not YOUR CHARACTER. Any thought otherwise is for them to have believed you were capable of all of these things before you even heard of D&D. Not a nice thought, but a true one, to be sure.

it takes lots of time

Yes, it does. It takes so much time that one wonders how these kids had so much time to do all of these "bad" things. Between getting school stuff done and working and everything else I'm lucky to get to play once a MONTH. Even when I was able to game more often it was usually only once a week. That is not too large a period of time, in my opinion. You could even propose that there be a set day that you game and you'll not vary from that. Once every other weekend tends to work best. It gives the DM time to work on more story and get things prepared, and gives the players time to think on what has happened and where they want to develop their character's story.

people get overinvolved in it

This, also, is true. I was one of those who did. No, I didn't start drinking blood or try to chop people's heads off or anything. I just spent way (read WAY) too much time thinking about D&D. So I took a step away and stopped for a while. It isn't an addiction and, as has been mentioned before, the people who are playing, christians or not, are typically more intelligent and imaginative then other people you could be hanging around with. After I had taken some time away from playing I came back into the game slowly and found a good balance. One thing that works out well in general, have the gaming location change places. Your place, the DM's place, another player's house, mix it up. Let you parents chaperone, as it were, so they can see whether or not you're getting "into it too far". On watching the shenanigans at the table, I hardly think they'll be worried for long.

Plus, if you tell someone at our church

This is pure selfishness. Their image is more important to them than your freedom of expression. I won't say anything else about this or I will surely burn.

I hope I have been of some help. It may seem odd but your parents are just looking out for you. They truly think this is a bad thing. Just help educate them about the truths of D&D and they'll see that it really is a harmless game. IF they go on the net themselves and find those "horror" stories of kids doing nasty things to animals and trying to kill people with swords because of D&D... I have a theory on this. The people who flip out on D&D will flip out on anything because they were imbalanced and undersupervised from the start. Typically it is the parents blaming D&D or loud music or video games so they can avert the blame to something other then themselves or their children. I'm sure your parents don't think you're a wacko, and because of their concern I'm sure that they are responsible. Thank them for that.

Feel free to let them read anything I've written, if you like. I don't even mind if they E-mail me for information. If you want to talk, E-mail me or find me on MSN. My E-mail address above is valid and that is my MSN account E-mail as well.

Again, I hope things work out for you.



[EDIT]Typos and other digital stupidity[EDIT] Kudos if you get that one.

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 08-19-2003).]

velvetrose
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: overlooking the bay
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 08-19-2003 11:37

no pics/maps up yet, but most of the logs for the game i'm in are here

[edit-fix link]

[This message has been edited by velvetrose (edited 08-19-2003).]

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 08-19-2003 15:16

One point that I think is very important here - games like D&D are *far* more suitable for normal decent people than many of the video games you've talked about playing.

People who get overinvolved in D&D are the same people who get overinvloved (addicted) in anything. It's a personality trait, not a result of the game.



RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 08-20-2003 04:52

To all my fellow Gamers .. Long Flight Good Hunting .. this topic has always come up in conversation and I have found an article that have taken the cake on the subject .. here are the link

http://www.gamegrene.com/rants/when_do_i_get_my_frigging_spells.shtml
gamegrene.com is a great site where the guy just writes articles about any gaming subject

[enjoy]

tj333
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Manitoba, Canada
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 08-20-2003 05:31

Since we have a well worded arguement from GrythusDraconis already I will try to provide some examples here.

Spells:
The closets you get to actual spell information is M, S, and V.
M means uspecified matereals are needed for the speel.
S is for somatic. You're character must be ale to move to cast the spell.l
V is verbal. Meaning you need to speak some unspecified words.
So Magic missel is V and S. Roll a d4 and add 1 for damage. Not quite casting a spell with this are you?

Evil
And as for the evil, it couldn't be farther from the truth.
You are the HERO. You crush the evil, save the innocent, and are the final hope of good standing before the armies of darkness. King Arthur(paladin), Bond(thief), The Fellowship of the Ring(wizard, thievs, fighters, ranger), and others like are all examples of DnD stlye hereos. So far from being evil your are trying to stop it. If they say that the game teaches stealing with thieves point out that the thief class does a lot of things like James Bond does. they are the special agentsw of DnD disarming traps and talking or sneaking their way past foes. Championing the cause of good and protecting the innocent are the meat and drink of the Paladin.

Overinvolved
This game takes thinking. People have learned reading and basic addtion, subtraction, multiplication, and division from playing this game. For each hour of game time you can spend 2 preparing and planning for the game. Reading the manuel and doing in game math for DnD are the most math and reading that many people in my game did.
If they think that you are going to be anti-social because of DnD, what do you call meating with a half-dozen people for hours at a time? DnD is what got me to leave my house and meet people. Before DnD I didn't leave home except for school.

For a good laugh see http://www.kevinbingham.com/ and listen to the Dungeons and Dragons, Satan's Game near the bottom. This is about as evil as most games of DnD get.

The WoTc Offcial message board. You should be able to find some posts their on a simular subject. http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=8

__________________________
"Show me a sane person and I will cure him for you."-Carl Jung
Eagles may fly high, but beavers don't get sucked into get engines.

[This message has been edited by tj333 (edited 08-20-2003).]

jstuartj
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Mpls, MN
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 08-20-2003 08:34

I remember this same argument in the mid & late 70'd. When local PTA group tried to ban AD&D from the school game clubs. There seam not a lot one can do, some even want to ban Mark Twain from the schools.

It does seem how the corporate world pushes the technique of roll playing to inspire creativiy and problem solving. But should you extend that to the stuff of storys and ledgend it becomes evil and corrupting.

Maybe this could help.

I have played AD&D for over 20 years not. I have not flaked or killed anyone or become the pawn of some demonic force. Unless you count Bill Gates or my ex girl friend. AD&D and wargames helped me deal with and cope with my learning disablility a form of Dyslexia. The math need to learn to play the games have helped me extensively. Roll playing games sparked my intrest in Printing and the graphics arts which is now my career. I learned program by writing a character generators, and a dice roller on my Vic 20 and C64. AD&D also enhanced skills I use in my every day work, such as public speaking skills, leadership ablities, thinking on my feet, and orginization.

It was something I shared with my brother, even when dying of cancer and mostly paralized. Playing AD&D and Star Frontiers, and Traveller let us explore, adventure, and become the heros in or own little make believe world. Something we could not share in real life.

I am pleased hear you parents are concerned. Even if it appears miss directed or over protective from my point of view. It's well intended and should be applauded.

Perhaps the best method would be to allow them to read the books or a perhap investage some other options. The world is full fun roll playing games. Not all are violent, or involve magic and monsters. Some are even some christian based games if would help. If they still will not allow it, I guess I would just respect their wishs.

J. Stuart J.

PS> Collage can't be that far away and it's much more fun in the dorms.

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-20-2003 10:16

I guess I could update as to how it's going:

Rammstein: I showed my mom (the only one home at this point) the article, which she found slightly funny, but nothing more. I even went through the articles that she had printed out and outlined the lies, out of context quotes and generally stupid comments that she was using against me/it. Actually, she has no objection beyond the fact (at this point, not initially) that their is magic. I explained to her that (in my opinion and hers) real magic is the result of demons influencing our 4 dimensions, and that in DnD magic is more of a force, like "The Force" from Star Wars, yet she still insists that it is called "magic" and "spells" for a reason. I explained that they are called that because it is a medeivel RPG, and that turned out fruitless. Anyways, I think that my best bet is to let her play a session with me when my Dad gets home.

jstuartj: I actually did show her the books, or at least only the Players Manual (3.5), and it made her opinion of the magic in the game even worse, since she said that magic was half of the game, since half of the manual is spells, and some require material components. Arguments ensued, going so far as to consult a Biblical concordense as to the "actual" meaning of "sorcerer" and "magic" and whatnot. Anyways, I know that their are other fun RPG's. Me and my friend play(ed) Fallout RPG, but I find fantasy much more fun than Fallout.

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 08-20-2003 16:23

Have you mentioned to her that you can play a character that never uses magic yet? You can play many different classes that don't even touch 'magic'. Magic of D&D isn't even like the force from star wars... It does nothing, it isn't real. You can't make it real. Even if you mad eup words and crushed a walnut and waved your hands around... it wouldn't do anything. Rabbit fur and a glass rod do not a lightning bolt make. At best you'll just numb your finger when you touch the doorknob.

Perfect Thunder
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milwaukee
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 08-20-2003 22:26

Well, what's her problem with fictional magic? If she thinks you'll be actually invoking evil spirits, then obviously that's untrue. If she thinks that you'll be tempted to study "real" magic, then maybe you need a relationship of trust and respect with your parents. (I mean, does she think you'll shoot people just because you play a video game or watch a movie?) And if her problem is that the game mentions magic at all, then you're simply out of luck. You can't argue with that, because obviously it does involve magic.

The logical breakdown I'm seeing here is that you and your parents believe magic is real. You believe that by sitting down and drawing a pentagram and invoking evil spirits, you can... what? Chuck a fireball into a police station? Give someone herpes? Summon a demon to grant you three wishes? Or do you just think that nothing will happen, and yet at the same time your immortal soul will be lost? I don't believe that. Most people who play fantasy RPGs don't. I think that if I sit down and draw a pentagram and sacrifice a chicken and pray for Satan to give me a new sports car, nothing at all will happen -- because even if I believe in an active God and an active Devil, I don't believe that either of them respond to mystical invocation. I can't do holy magic to summon angels; I can't do diabolic magic to summon demons. And until you or your parents have solid proof that magic of any kind has any real-world effect, then fictional magic should probably not be an issue.

Of course, you can't present this particular argument... because if someone is determined to fear something, you can't convince him that it doesn't exist. "There are no monsters under your bed... I just checked a minute ago. Flashlight and everything." "Sure... but there might be monsters now!"

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-20-2003 23:11

No, I don't beleive that by drawing a pentagram, sacrificing my brother and praying to Satan will allow me to chuck a fireball at that classmate that I envy. Magic, at least as far as I know, consists of a lot of uncertains. Like: Cause harm to this person. You don't know what is going to happen, but you know that something will happen. I dunno, go to an occult site, or a magic site, and see what it consists of, it's not: Magic Missle, or Larloch's Minor Drain or Burning Hands, it's a lot of curses and hex's. But still, I beleive that magic is real, yes.

Perfect Thunder
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milwaukee
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 08-20-2003 23:16

Well, in that case you might want to avoid Dungeons and Dragons after all... remember, every time you roll that d20, Satan is watching you through his patented Hell Periscope.

edit: Maybe a little too flippant there. Honestly, though, if you believe in a providential universe (in which literally every occurrence must be authorized by God) then you'd better believe that he doesn't allow evil magic. Curses and hexes are like horoscopes -- I can wave a chickenbone and say "mighty Cthulhu, make something bad happen to CFB" and if you stub your toe a week from then, hey, my curse worked!

Then again, if you believe in a providential universe, you have to wonder why ten-year-olds massacred civilians in Liberia... but that's another conversation, and one that can have no resolution.

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 08-20-2003).]

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-20-2003 23:54

Haha...I think my Mom is actually going to let me play it after all. I finally got it through to her, after about 1 week, that this is fantasy magic. And after explaining (although this is only from my knowledge from reading an outdated book) that 99.9% of real magic is curses and hexes, she is actually much more confortable. Now I just have to convince my Dad. And when I do that, I think that I'll finish it up by playing a small self-made module with them to reassure them. My Mom even admitted that her fears were mostly the result of 30 years of being bombarded with: DnD is causing a bunch of kids to go out and cast fireball on their parents, then kill themselves.

Perfect Thunder
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milwaukee
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 08-21-2003 00:02

If real magic involved visible and dramatic effects, people would have noticed by now. Imagine the headlines!

Five Charged in Lightning Bolt Killings
9/11 Insect Plague Summoners Bought Spellbooks in US, FBI Says
Dick Clark's Immortality Potion Wears Off
West Nile Moves South; Churches Prepare Cure Disease Spells

[ Emps gets laid ]

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

[This message has been edited by Emperor (edited 08-21-2003).]

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

posted posted 08-21-2003 00:29

Cfb - Have you mentioned to your parents that this is fantasy?

I just don't understand stuff like this. Why would people be so concerned about things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, or Dnd turning their children into homosexual God hating monsters?

At my sisters sleep over in the beginning of the summer one parent yanked their 16 year old daughter home when they learned there were horror movies being shown. Something about A Nightmare On Elm Street leading to Communism and homosexuality. Don't parents have any confidence in their ability to parent?

Jestah

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 08-21-2003).]

InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 08-21-2003 00:35
quote:
Something about A Nightmare On Elm Street leading to Communism and homosexuality.



I definitely wanna hear that story... .

Moon Dancer
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Lost Grove
Insane since: Apr 2003

posted posted 08-21-2003 01:37

Yay, cfb!! Your persistence is paying off!

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 08-21-2003 02:01

I want to touch on the evil characters for a second. There have been times when we've gotten tired of playing goodie-two-shoes and decided to run evil characters for a bit. Talk about a nice change of pace. Maybe someday I'll tell some stories.

There was this one time, we were playing male drow fighters in Menzoberranzan...

tj333
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Manitoba, Canada
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 08-21-2003 03:05

Yeah evil can be fun. I thought I wouldn't bring it up that much for reasons of letting you play the game. Evil characters can be heros but don't ecpect paladins to get along with them for long. Its hard getting this idea through to players who think evil is the same as stupid.

The fun of evil is mostly just the change of pace from being good. Being able to haggle with the king on the ransom for saving the princess rather then just boldly running out to do so is fun.


Evil is good!(Dungeon Keeper 1&2)
__________________________
"Show me a sane person and I will cure him for you."-Carl Jung
Eagles may fly high, but beavers don't get sucked into get engines.

[This message has been edited by tj333 (edited 08-21-2003).]

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 08-21-2003 06:10

Here something that happened when we were running primarily evil characters.
Standard get hired to guard a caravan.
Caravan gets attacked by bad people and we defend.
During the fight, we find out the caravan is running weapons to some other very bad people.
We hi-jack the caravan and sell to the highest bidder, which just happened to be the local good people.

Oh, what fun.

Okay, that's about enough out of me. I've got way too many stories to get into.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 08-21-2003 07:31

cfb .. when explaining to her what why "magic" and "spells" are used in the text .. just explain to her .. they are words just describing what they plainly are .. shit .. be blunt with her .. sex is called sex because of one reason .. it's sex .. an apple is called an apple because it's an apple .. magic is called magic because well it has be called something .. shit .. is your mother very religious? .. does she sometimes say "that was a miracle" .. or .. "we just witnessed a miracle" .. the key word I'm asking for is "miracle" .. this particular word is important to me because well in my eyes any time a "miracle" happens or is witnessed .. I consider it a form of magic .. did Jesus not heal people with the touch of his hand or someone touching his cloth?

cfb .. it's sad to see you struggling to convince your parental unit that DnD is JUST A GAME .. and you know the difference between reality and a game .. someone brought up a good point about you being raised the right way to decifer between reality and a game .. if anything shove that in your parents face .. lol .. say something like .. "jesus christ mom .. you raised me well enough to know the difference between right and wrong .. and what is real and isn't real .. to me DnD is just a game .. an intellectual game and peeks my interest and attention .. what would be worse .. staring at a screne all day playing a PC Game where there is no reading no true knowledge begin soaked into my brain .. or me having to read and write and practically use my Math skills to play a game that makes me smile and enjoy myself with other friends around .. so what if I'm eating gressy foods and drinking Soda all night all .. I'm young .. you said I could do anything I wanted .. well mom and dad .. I enjoy playing DnD the Game .. and I know the difference between the what is real and what isn't"

something like that .. toss a little something in there face about them raising you then be innocent and repeatedly say you know the difference between real and unreal .. I think you see what many of us here are getting at

and did she really laugh at the article and totally disregard the point of the article? .. if so .. I'm sorry to hear that .. and sad to see that a stereotype is present just because of assumption by media and religion .. there are so many more arguements I could ehlp you with but I might take up to much time

ps .. did you follow the other links within that article to other articles? if not .. do so .. the more knowledge you provide for those that think DnD is evil .. the better your chances are that they open up alittle and realize to generalize something so trivial has been pointless to do so time and time again

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 08-21-2003).]

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-22-2003 22:09

Well, that was easier than I expected. My Dad came home, I asked him to play the game, and he said no, but he wants to research it. I pretty much told him that anything that he researched was probably going to be crap, but used the argument that magic is called magic because D&D is a medeivel RPG, and that if it were to be set in the future, it would be something like Psionics. After that, he said theirs a 95% chance that he'll let me play.

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-22-2003 22:10
quote:
raising you then be innocent



Actually, they haven't. They use the "it's better to teach than protect" motto, but they think/thought that playing with magic, even in a fantasy, is like playing with fire.

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 08-22-2003 23:03

That's actually a good way of putting it CFB. Magic is like the electricity of D&D. If you run magic through this thing it has this effect. Just like plasma in an atomic rifle or something similar. Very glad to hear things are going better. I really appreciate this inside view of things, thanks for sharing it with us. Keep us updated.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 08-23-2003 01:52

cfb .. yeah bro .. good to hear things are looking up .. and I'm sure your already helping your father with research right? con an pros of course?


.::. cEll .::. 513

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-23-2003 02:09

GD: "Playing With Fire" is a term that means that your really playing around the edge of something dangerous. See: Fire hurts you (among other good things) and if you play with fire you risk getting hurt. Thats what she thinks/though about magic in DnD. But, I do like the idea of using the term "Playing With Fire" (which is a favorite saying of hers) as support for my side, although it probably won't be that usefull now that my Dad said that I'll probably be able to play.

Everyone: Thanks for your help, it's really appreciated, and without it I probably wouldn't be able to play.

Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 08-23-2003 03:40

Your folks sound reasonable cfb
I could never even persuade my parents that "Joss sticks are NOT drugs" heh.



[edit] I heard a tale of Robbing Shopkeepers in the town of Suran

[This message has been edited by Taobaybee (edited 08-23-2003).]

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-23-2003 22:50

Oh yes, and does anyone here play Neverwinter Nights?

Rauthrin
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: 2 Miles Below Insane
Insane since: Apr 2003

posted posted 08-24-2003 10:27

I did until I had to make room on my hard drive for a bunch of stuff, but that will all change next week when I get my own comp.

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 08-24-2003 11:02

i would if I had it, but I don't so I can't.

Meanwhile I'd like to get copies of all the old DnD type games, like the might and magic series, and Daggerfall, Betrayal at Krondor and Betrayal in Antara, menzoberranzan, all those old ones and play them and play then and play them....I get the feeling I'm missing something.

Veneficuz
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: A graveyard of dreams
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 08-24-2003 12:49

Great to hear that you've been allowed to play

I've got nwn laying around here somewhere, but I haven't played it a while. But if anyone is interrested it would be fun to try the multiplayer 'mode'.. I played a couple of games with Tiki about a year ago, was much more enjoyable than playing solo



_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

Sanzen
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Raleigh, NC
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 08-24-2003 19:10

meh, DnD is no worse than Everquest. And I played EQ for 4 years. And all I heard was bad stuff about it, yet, i maintained my social life, i didn't kill myself, i DID rebuke god.... but, meh, who hasn't nowadays *snickers* ...... if parents are so concerned about these games it means they're pretty insecure within themselves. tell them to fuck off and just go play whenever you can

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